Can we get the actual and exact knowledge of the ancient scriptures by going through their translations?
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Can we get the actual and exact knowledge of the ancient scriptu
May 21, 2009 by C. S. Moorthy, 1 year 15 weeks ago
Comment id: 62
Dear Arunim,
Two days back I had commented on your topic. On reflection I felt that my response was inadequate to such a vital topic. The topic is indeed a very serious issue needing our utmost attention.
When we say ancient scriptures we mean Rig Veda as it the the oldest in point of time. All other Vedas, Brahmanas, Aranyakas, Puranas, Vedanta, and Vedangas followed many thousands of years latter. Many of them contain Riks of Rig Vedic source.
As per established tradition, with reference to Veda there is also mention of a Veda Purusha. Veda is Veda Purusha. If you turn to Yoga Sashtra, you are informed that there is Purusha and Prakriti. This Purusha you are further told is the Universal Self. That Purusha is the Universal Self is unquestionably accepted by all branches of spiritual lore. Moreover, the ordinary meaning of the word Purusha is man. On mastery of Veda, Purusha the man becomes Purusha the Universal Self. He is the Veda! Veda is not a book; it is dynamic knowledge of a kind. The true meaning is not in the material contents but in the spirit of the Veda. Potentially man is Veda. Hence the call of
Ramana Maharishi, “know thyself.”
Why I cited late J. Krisnamurti because he used to say all the time that to know about yourself books and gurus are redundant. They could, in fact influence you and lead you astray, as it really happens He also admitted that he had not read Vedas. Still, he lived the life of a Rishi and became a Veda Purusha for all to see in this age and time!
The message is clear. The meaning is not in the book but in you and me. Do we see it?
No. We only want an explanation and we are content with it. We are not interested to become Veda Purusha. So the Veda will elude us!
With Love
C. S. Moorthy
One Query
May 21, 2009 by mahim, 1 year 15 weeks ago
Comment id: 63
Respected Sir,
First of all thank you very much such knowledgeable article. Seems like we have a lot to learn a lot from you.
My query is, most of the times while reading ancient Literature, we encounter that a person is well versed with Vedas. But what does it convey? He knows extreme knowledge, or by such statements, the narrator wants to show virtue of person.(Sorry I am using person..I should have used Rishis). Besides, how the Vedas can be source of Apara Vidya which can be attained only through meditation.but this also comes with condition that, one person should be well versed with Vedas before opting for such Samadhis.
Another question, which is evident here is, if at present we go through the Vedas, apparently we do not find anything which can be stated as knowledge, as their translation is certainly far away from their perceived meaning.
Can we get the actual and exact knowledge of the ancient scriptu
May 21, 2009 by C. S. Moorthy, 1 year 15 weeks ago
Comment id: 61
Dear Arunim,
Two days back I had commented on your topic. On reflection I felt that my response was inadequate to such a vital topic. The topic is indeed a very serious issue needing our utmost attention.
When we say ancient scriptures we mean Rig Veda as it the the oldest in point of time. All other Vedas, Brahmanas, Aranyakas, Puranas, Vedanta, and Vedangas followed many thousands of years latter. Many of them contain Riks of Rig Vedic source.
As per established tradition, with reference to Veda there is also mention of a Veda Purusha. Veda is Veda Purusha. If you turn to Yoga Sashtra, you are informed that there is Purusha and Prakriti. This Purusha you are further told is the Universal Self. That Purusha is the Universal Self is unquestionably accepted by all branches of spiritual lore. Moreover, the ordinary meaning of the word Purusha is man. On mastery of Veda, Purusha the man becomes Purusha the Universal Self. He is the Veda! Veda is not a book; it is dynamic knowledge of a kind. The true meaning is not in the material contents but in the spirit of the Veda. Potentially man is Veda. Hence the call of
Ramana Maharishi, “know thyself.”
Why I cited late J. Krisnamurti because he used to say all the time that to know about yourself books and gurus are redundant. They could, in fact influence you and lead you astray, as it really happens He also admitted that he had not read Vedas. Still, he lived the life of a Rishi and became a Veda Purusha for all to see in this age and time!
The message is clear. The meaning is not in the book but in you and me. Do we see it?
No. We only want an explanation and we are content with it. We are not interested to become Veda Purusha. So the Veda will elude us!
With Love
C. S. Moorthy
Can we get the actual and exact knowledge of the ancient scriptu
May 19, 2009 by C. S. Moorthy, 1 year 16 weeks ago
Comment id: 59
Dear Arunim,
It is a topic engaging my attention currently.
I have been researching on Rig Veda, a sakha to which I belong.
Rig Veda was compiled some thousands of years ago. The antiquity of Rig Veda is itself under dispute. The Western society cannot digest the fact that Rig Veda is far older than 4000 BCE. This 4000 BCE is their concept of the gensis of civilized society. Then how they can concede a date much prior to it. If they concede then we become a superior race which they don't want to admit, as according to them we were barbarians and need to be converted to their superior religion, Christianity!
Be that as it may, This Rig Veda resulted when some 400+ Rishis had a gift of special vision. The 400+ included some 25 women. What they composed after the vision is therefore the contents of Rig Veda. These Rishis were called Mantra Drashtas. More important they did not seek any favours from the Luminaries (Devatas) or God. They just praised them. There is much science (as we know it now)embedded in it.
The subseqent generations attempted to decipher the contents with Lexicons known as Niruktas and Bhasyas but not much headway could be made. Many excellent glosses appeared but the core meaning remained a secret. It was given to Maharishi Sri Aurobindo in early 20th Century to decipher the meaning properly. However, to live the life of ancient Rishis and have first hand knowledge of what they were implying was left to late J. Krishnamurti. This first hand knowledge he freely offered to public for 65 years. Unfortunately he passed away in 1987. Millions benefited by his superior knowledge expressed in very simple English language. Many great scientists were his admirers. Many questioned him. Many US Universities had his luctures frequently in their campuses.
He never had formal education. He was a dunce at primary school in Andhra Pradesh. He lived in Carlifonia from 1922 to 1987. He travelled around the world extensively.
With Love
C. S. Moorthy
haraye namaha.....
May 7, 2009 by vidwansuneel, 1 year 17 weeks ago
Comment id: 46
dear arunim.
I just wanted to say.. you cant get the knowledge by just glancing over the translations of scriptures.. because there we can see the interpretations of translator.. and his own views..
so if someone think ,by understanding translations we can get the knowledge of scriptures its their WRONG NOTION..
so better learn from the base how much you can understand try to understand... but don't think translation is the only option to vanquish one's ignorance....
swastyastu...
Not exactly.
May 5, 2009 by Gowri, 1 year 18 weeks ago
Comment id: 42
The translation generally gives word to word meaning or the translator's perception is dominant. For example he may perceive the glass is hall full or half empty. To really understand what has been said, personal practical experience in the field of interest is highly important to make the true sense of what is being translated. For example, in meditation each person has a different experience. to know what it is all about, you can't just hear what others are saying because your understanding is based on someone else's experience. to know about meditation, you need to sit down and meditate.
That is my point of view. However, with help of translation, we can get the gist of what is being said and the direction to look to understand more about any given topic.
To Arunim
September 4, 2009 by maananth_anveshana, 1 year 4 days ago
Comment id: 189
I agree with Murtyji, Sunlji & gowriji. Actually, by translation one can understand the mula - main text at least 25 r 50% that too depending upon the translation or the translator. If the translator who is translating the text, is well-versed in all scriptures, knows the target audience, knows the tactful presentation of the main texts, expalins the intention of the main text without harming its originality, then translation will help the reader a lot. But where we can find such correct, exact translation for the texts?
Moreover, as the people told earlier, translation itself wont give the fullfledged meaning of the main text. One should read that main text in its own language, by which naturally one can understand the meaning easily. If some technical term is not easily understood then, reader should take the help of Sanskrit Grammer, Metaphysical texts which are Tarkashastric, Mimamsik texts, to interprete those technical terms. Thats y, there is a slogan which is well-known in Scholarly world that - 'Kaanaadam Paaniniiyam ca sarvashastropakaarakam', which means - Kaanaada - Tarkashastra - Logical text, Paaniniiya - Sanskrit Grammer - both of them are very helpful to all other philosophies.
To sum up, one can depend upon the translations up to 20 or 25% only. If one reads, interprets, understands the main text in its own language, then its effect or meaing is more accurate, perfect, rather than the translations.
I dont know how my view will be correct, go with the view os you people. But whatever i know, i have posted here. Please let me know if i have said anything wrong...!!
Veda
September 9, 2009 by C. S. Moorthy, 1 year 1 hour ago
Comment id: 190
You are right in saying that nobody can understand Veda in its entirety.
If you refer to my paper on ‘When Science was Religion”, you will find that in the very beginning I present a proposition. The Rishis (400+ of them) who compiled the Veda (Rig Veda) were Mantra Drashtas. They were not ordinary people like you and me. Therefore to understand what they compiled, you also have to rise to the level of a Mantra Drashta and nothing short!
In my paper ‘Are you Scientific or Religious,’ I have also stated that Veda is the breath (Niswashtam) of Parabrahman as per Brihad- aranya Upanishad. The Rishis of yore therefore reached a state of being where they are able to witness the Parabrahman. It is not given to everybody to attain this level. After compilation of Rig Veda, after many years Anukramanis and Niruktas appeared trying to explain the meanings and implications of the words and sentences in Veda. You can see very easily that they are attempts by thought process to understand the contents of Veda. Yaska stands tall in this respect because his work on the subject is the most authoritative till date, but it is not good enough to understand the entire Veda. Much later, other Vedas, Brahmanas, Vedangas, Upavedas, and Vedanta appeared mostly around the Veda Vyasa Era. It is quite evident that these works are brilliant and profound results of very sophisticated thinking and penetrating intelligence but short of the intuitions of a Mantra Drashta.
The Mantra Drashta not only witnesses the breathe, but he also becomes the Veda. He is not separate from it so that he has no need to understand its content. I also answered the question, is there such a person in this age and time. There was one such man late into the twentieth century. We shall digress a little to arrive at him. You may recall the mythological story of king Sagara (ocean). This king Sagara had 100 sons. He once performed the Aswha Medha Yaga. The horse that was ciculated as part of the Yaga disaapeared. The king then sends his ten sons in search. They land in Pathala (Antipod)
And find the horse tied to a pole outside an ashrama. The sons conclude that the horse was stolen by the Rishi inside. They were about to kill him, when the Rishi Kapila opened his eyes and realized what was happening. He immediately burnt them to ashes.
As per the late Shankaracharya, Chandrasekara Saraswati, The place was known as Kapila Aranya now corrupted into California (In USA). You can also recognize if you care, the Ashland in that place even today! This Kapila Aranya was the abode naturally of another Mantra Drashta in the twentieth century! I was referring to late J. Krishnamurti who lived there for 65 years of his life. By his own admission, he did not read any Vedas or Shastras, yet what he spoke was for the duration of 65 long years was pure Rig Veda. He was a living example of Rig Veda. In the West Science was in the making. Many great scientists met him and benefited merely by his company. Such was the greatness of the man. He could attain Sahaja Samadhi at will.
The Veda says, the best way to understand, even a little is best done by Swadyaya. It also admolishes that a Brahmana who so learns is duty bound to explain it to his fellow being to the best of his ability, which is what, I believe, we are trying to do at Eanveshan.
With love
To Arunim
September 4, 2009 by maananth_anveshana, 1 year 4 days ago
Comment id: 188
I agree with Murtyji, Sunlji & gowriji. Actually, by translation one can understand the mula - main text at least 25 r 50% that too depending upon the translation or the translator. If the translator who is translating the text, is well-versed in all scriptures, knows the target audience, knows the tactful presentation of the main texts, expalins the intention of the main text without harming its originality, then translation will help the reader a lot. But where we can find such correct, exact translation for the texts?
Moreover, as the people told earlier, translation itself wont give the fullfledged meaning of the main text. One should read that main text in its own language, by which naturally one can understand the meaning easily. If some technical term is not easily understood then, reader should take the help of Sanskrit Grammer, Metaphysical texts which are Tarkashastric, Mimamsik texts, to interprete those technical terms. Thats y, there is a slogan which is well-known in Scholarly world that - 'Kaanaadam Paaniniiyam ca sarvashastropakaarakam', which means - Kaanaada - Tarkashastra - Logical text, Paaniniiya - Sanskrit Grammer - both of them are very helpful to all other philosophies.
To sum up, one can depend upon the translations up to 20 or 25% only. If one reads, interprets, understands the main text in its own language, then its effect or meaing is more accurate, perfect, rather than the translations.
I dont know how my view will be correct, go with the view os you people. But whatever i know, i have posted here. Please let me know if i have said anything wrong...!!